Supernatural: Lucifer Rising Clips
May 8, 2009 by Cynthia
Here’s the first of three clips from the upcoming season finale of Supernatural, Lucifer Rising! In this first clip, it looks like Dean has given up hope, but Bobby has something to say about family that will make you both laugh and cry.
Click the “Read More” tag below to see the other two clips.
Sam is a changed man….sounds like there’s no going back now.
Finally, the angels talk with Dean about the final plan of attack.
Gosh..its fascinating to read these comments. Its almost like everyone believes these two characters are real people! love the passion
I am a big big Dean fan..so let me state that upfront. But I think Dean would not be so fascinating if Sam wasn’t around. So, for all our sakes I hope Sam lives through this finale and I think he will. The interaction between these brothers is the bread-n-butter for Kripke. About the theory..I don’t think Lilith and Ruby are on the same team. I think Ruby is either Lucifer himself or his uno henchwoman. And Sam is being prepared to be able to handle Lucifer in his body. Lilith wants Sam dead before that can happen because Lilith is actually competing with Lucifer to dominate Hell. So, Dean needs to stop Sam from killing Lilith to stop Lucifer from posessing Sam and at the same time protect Sam from Ruby and Lilith. Gosh…I think Dean is the only person who can do it if at all because he is brave and he loves Sammy more than himself. But then, what will Lilith do to Sam and Dean if she lives. Thats where the angels come in. We have not seen all there powers yet. They seem to only be reacting untill now and not acting beforehand and changing the situation. I guess S5 will be about Sam n Dean and the angel’s powers.
Last but not the least…I just love the Dean character and Jensen playing Dean. Its such a treat to watch him.
***Jen: I have to say though, that if you truly think Sam is a Marty Stu, I don’t know why you’re even bothering to watch.***
I watch because there is another character on the show who is the most intriguing fictional character to come along since Mulder and Scully. I know it’s heresy to say that publicly in this fandom but my primary interest in the show is Dean. I’ve no doubt you and others will start screeching bad fan but you know what? My money is just as good as the the samfanatics and the so-called bibros when I go to conventions, buy the episodes on itunes or the novels, etc., etc. And I’m really tired of being told how I should watch the show or how I should feel about certain characters aby people who seem to think they are somehow morally superior because they are in the minority.
***Jen: I also don’t know what you’re watching, because a less Mary Sue like character I have never seen. I propose a trade. I think Dean fans and Sam fans should have to swap TV sets. That way Sam fans can get this version of the show that just loves him, and Dean fans can watch the episodes of the Dean show that seems to be playing on Sam fans sets.***
I’ll pass thanks. The version of the show the samfans seem to watch would bore me to tears. As far as the Mary Sue issue, well everyone seems to have a different definition which proves their point. But for me, it’s a character who is always talked up and often protected at the expense of other characters. It’s one of the primary reasons I prefer Dean to Sam. The show rarely coddles him. Instead it shines a spotlight on every single flaw he has, large or small. I had high hopes for Sam this season because it seemed that they were finally going to get to the meat of his dark arc and I thought the writers would finally be willing to let the character own some of his flaws. I still hope that will ultimately be the case. But those hopes are dwindling rapidly with clips like this one where Bobby once again lays all the blame squarely on Dean, with the whitewashing of Ruby’s body, with the need to turn Dean into a torturer who was so weak that he broke the first seal, with Kripke sending Dean back in time and making him responsible for the YED discovered Mary and started the Winchesters on this journey. Now I am really hoping there is something more to this than just making sure that whatever Sam does, Dean’s actions will be worse but the constant harping on Dean’s weakness being the cause of Sam’s fall, really isn’t giving me any faith.
***Jen: If he’s not too fragile to handle it, why is everyone so incensed over it being said? If Dean can handle it, which I’m sure he can, there’s no need to be so furious over it. Upset, sure. Livid, no.***
Well I think this point has been addressed over and over again so the question seems a little disingenuous and once again a false representation of the arguments presented. But the issue isn’t that Bobby spoke harshly to Dean or tried to kick his ass into action. It’s that his entire rant was riddled with accusations against Dean’s character that are patently false. They also seem to once again be supporting Sam’s contention that Dean is weak and therefore laying the responsibility for Sam’s actions on Dean. Sam had to go bad because his pathetic brother can’t get the job done. Ironically, this weak pathetic creature is still expected to chase after Sam and save him somehow.
My anger isn’t actually with Bobby but with Kripke for assassinating a beloved character in order to prop Sam once again.
***Jen: I’d be happy to address your point. But I guess Uriel doesn’t count? Because he made it clear how he felt about Sam, and he didn’t hold back. Or if you want to go to last season, we’ve got Bela calling Sam “a bit of a drama queen”. Or Dean leveling what was clearly an insult when he told Sam that he was just like John? Or Dean calling Sam a monster? Or Dean telling Sam that if he didn’t know him, he would want to hunt him? Or how John bitched Sam out for not shooting him? Or how Dean chewed Sam out about how Sam reacted to John’s death? Shall I go on? How about when Dean punched Sam because of their fight about trusting Gordon? Just because Bobby hasn’t personally gotten a chance to chew Sam out doesn’t mean no one in the history of ever has never said an unkind word to Sam.***
Thanks for reminding me about Uriel. I did forget about his little speech to Sam. Of course he turned out to be a bad guy so hardly a credible judge of Sam’s character. Unlike the good guys like Bobby and Missouri who seem much more credible when they belittle and demean Dean. Is the audience supposed to think he deserves it because they are good people? I really don’t know.
As for Gordon, he was batshit crazy and nobody took his view of Sam seriously and Bela, may have called Sam a drama queen (though quite frankly that’s not really much of an insult to me) but she also said on more than one occasion that Sam was smart while running down Dean’s intelligence every chance she got.
Dean and Sam arguing accusing each other of whatever doesn’t really count for me since anyone with half a brain would understand that they are unreliable narrators and projecting their own views of themselves and each other. That is completely different from a trusted third party such as Bobby mouthing insults largely formulated by the Deanhaters. The show has never done that with Sam that I can recall and I sincerely doubt that it ever will.
***If the show loved Sam so much as you say, wouldn’t it be far, far easier to make him a true Lana Lang and make him either never intentionally do anything wrong, or never make him do anything wrong when he wasn’t possessed or otherwise out of control of his actions? That would be much easier and less time consuming then giving him the bad, evil things to do and then coming up with ways to absolve his guilt for them. Which the show hasn’t done. They haven’t excused Sam’s blood habit. They haven’t excused the fact that he slept with a demon. Or the fact that he’s voluntarily giving in to the evil. They’ve done nothing but showcase that. I don’t see anyone on the show blaming Dean for Sam’s addiction. Not one person. Not even Sam. I don’t even see Dean blaming himself for it.***
Well this is not the show that I am watching. See my comments above. But I have throw your own question back at you. If you think Sam is so badly treated, why are you still watching the show?
***Jen: Let me throw a further wrench in the works. I love Sam. He’s my favorite character on this show, and he always has been. And he is guilty as hell for every single choice he’s made. He holds that responsiblity, no one else. He has reasons for his actions, but they do not excuse, or whitewash those actions, and he is still responsible for them. Not Dean. Not Bobby. Not John. Sam. Sam is responsible for them.***
Thank you for saying that. I honestly have not seen many Samfans admit this. At best it’s a throw-away comment like of course Sam has done some things wrong followed by a litany of all the many ways Dean has failed him.
***Jen: I also love Dean. Not as much as Sam, but I still love him. And he’s just as guilty for all of the choices he’s made. Just Dean. No one else. Not Sam, not John, not Bobby. Like Sam, Dean has reasons for what he has done. But reasons are not excuses for him either. So the guilt remains with him.***
I agree but where I’ve seen Dean acknowledge his guilt and sorrow and I’ve seen other people call Dean on these things, I have yet to see the same from or about Sam. It’s the imbalance that drives me crazy.
***Jen: I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is no pleasing Dean fans. First it was “But Dean’s just a prop! He’s just a sidekick because he has no place in the mytharc! The show’s all about Sam! All about Sam’s dork sided density! Dean needs more of a part in the mytharc! We want more Dean!” Now in the current season Dean has a.) gotten a significant part in the mytharc and b.) gotten more screen time and storylines than any other character and yet STILL all we hear is “Not enough Dean! Poor Dean! He gets blamed for everything!” Good God! What do you want? Will you not be happy until Dean and Castiel are the only characters on the show? And would you then turn on Castiel if he dared to disagree with Dean? I don’t understand this “you’re either with us or against us” mentality either. Just because I don’t think Dean is the most awesome person in the history of the universe, and refuse to fall down and worship at his feet, does not mean that I hate him.***
And here it is. The Evil Deangirl rant. You know you arguments would hold a hell of a lot more merit if you acknowledged that samgirls do exactly the same thing. They have been complaining about Sam being marginalized since Devil’s Trap even though the entire story revolved around him for the first three years. They wanted evil!Sam because Jared finally got a bit of attention for his acting with BUABS and all they’ve done this season is scream about how Kripke is destroying his character. We don’t know what’s going on inside his head and his story is happening off screen, they claim despite numerous episodes where he tells us himself what is going on inside his head and we got more than an eyeful of how he ended up in Ruby’s bed and as her BFF. He was left out of ITB they cry, even though the entire story was about the origin of his dark destiny. People don’t love Sam enough, Jared needs more attention. They hate Castiel, they hated Bobby until he suddenly became Sam’s biggest fangirl. Samfans are just as guilty as Deanfans of being perpetually dissatisfied. And they have hijacked every blog and article with their complaints even when the show was getting rave reviews and more attention than it has ever gotten.
If I wasn’t so mad a Kripke right now for ruining Bobby, I’d feel sorry for him because he really can’t win with either side.
Whaouh is it war between Supernatural’s fans ? I’m a Dean’s girl but I do not want to see a show all about Dean , or a Dean & Cas show . I like Sammy , I love Dean and I like very much Cas . It’s the interaction between Dean & Sammy that made this show interesting . A show all about Sammy , a show all about Dean wouldn’t be interesting
And I do not agree at all with Sammy strangling Dean . Gosh , to strangle a person to tell him/her to go away ? You’re scared me !
***I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is no pleasing Dean fan***
I can say the same about Sam fans with exact examples. Will it make things even?
***I think Ruby is either Lucifer himself ***
But of course because only Saint Sammy can fuck Lucifer, LOL.
JustMe: “If you think Sam is so badly treated, why are you still watching the show? ”
Mostly because in my opinion, my feelings that Sam has been treated badly only began in this season. Yes, read that again. I’m throwing another wrench in your works at generalizing all Sam fans as evil and half-brained. I loved the first two seasons, and I liked the third, and even then, Bela was my main complaint about the third season. I was even pleased with Lazarus Rising, and in fact the first seeds of dissatisfaction weren’t sown until In the Beginning. Ah, there I go, sliding into your nice little mold on how a Sam fan should feel. I remember a hue and cry going up from the Dean fans camp when Mystery Spot dared to both focus on Sam and *gasp* cut Dean out of the episode for 12 whole minutes! Fast forward a half season or so and when the Sam fans get upset out of him getting a grand total of 42 seconds of screen time in an episode, suddenly we’re all whiny jerks. Right. Not buying it. It’s easy to like things when they go your way. Couple that with the fact that they still haven’t given us a satisfactory answer as to WHY Sam was cut from that episode (No, Jared wasn’t doing F13 reshoots, that’s been proven as concretely as possible. Not to mention the fact that both Jensen and Mitch Pileggi said in separate interviews, at separate times, that Jared was in Hawaii, on vacation. Don’t begrudge the man a vacation, but if he was available to shoot, he should have been in the episode. If it was for personal reasons, then maybe it would have been best to just say “It was for personal reasons” instead of trying to obscure the issue. Or say nothing at all, and quit trying to blow smoke by claiming reshoots that no one can seem to prove even existed.) Even then, as angry as I was about that, I was willing to let it slide as an abberation. Only, see, it wasn’t.
I’m actually in the process of clocking screen times for this season, for Dean and Sam only. *cue the cries of “OMG, what an idiot! Get a life! It’s just a TV show!”* I’m doing it because I’m sick and tired of hearing people swear up and down that the fans who don’t agree with them are making it up. We’re not. And I don’t give a flying fish if you want to claim that In the Beginning was all about Sam even though he wasn’t there. The fact remains, he wasn’t there, and if the tables were turned the fuss from the other side would be even louder. At present, I’ve just finished with In the Beginning, and started on Metamorphosis. And at that mark, Dean already has over 50 minutes more screentime. But you know, I’m sure I’m just making that up too.
Personally, I’m not going to call you a bad fan for loving Dean to the exclusion of all other characters. That’s now how I choose to view the show, but you’re allowed to watch however you want, just as I am.
I do, however, think that your fan to fan relating could use some refining. Calling fellow fans disingenous, half-brained, and claiming that their arguments have no merit simply because they do not agree with what you think, or what you see in the show is not a good way to communitcate with other people.
At the risk of being called false and underhanded again, I have another question. So you’re saying that, if Bobby had chosen to chew Dean out about anything else in the exact same manner, you’d be okay with it? What if he’d chosen to express those same opinions in a vastly different way? Maybe a kind, quiet sit down to gently point out the way he saw it all? And you totally glossed over my point that maybe what Bobby wanted to accomplish was to make Dean angry, to give him the fire to fight. What better way to achieve that at the moment than to bring up Sam and the way he’s handling things?
The truth stings, does it? I can’t say those things about Sam fans, because I haven’t seen it, much like I notice you decline to agree that what I say is true. Despite being a fan of the show, I didn’t get into online fandom until the middle to end of Season Two. So I have no idea what Sam fans were saying about Devil’s Trap. I do know that Sam fans have always been the minority, and remain so today, so yes, I and other fans like myself do feel the need to defend him if we see a chance to. I can only speak for myself, but personally, I don’t hate Castiel. I’m not a fan, per se, but I like him. Rather, liked him before the new ice cold persona took hold. Last week’s episode didn’t make me that happy, but that was more due to a lack of Sam AND Dean than anything else. Notice that? I don’t like it when Dean gets left out either. I’ve always loved Bobby. Always, ever since the first time we saw him. I would love to know about these numerous episodes where we get so much insight into Sam’s head and what he thinks though. I must have missed those episodes. And wow, a whole half an episode. That counts as an eyeful now? Not to mention the fact that we were left wondering what in the hell Sam had done all summer until the 9th episode of a 22 episode season? Oh yeah, Sam fans are totally being ridiculous. What’s that you say? That there’s been little to no further insight on how Sam got to where he is now? No, Wee!Sam and Mary hallucinations don’t count. I want to know how he got started on the blood drinking in the first place. Plenty of fans, even Dean fans, will come out and admit, some without prompting, that the show has been very unbalanced this season. Notice that again? I said THIS season. Not the entire show. Not forever. Just this season. Though I have to say, calling Season Three all about Sam is a laugh. The only purpose Sam had in that entire season was saving Dean. So if you want to try to prop up your argument that In the Beginning was all about Sam when he wasn’t even in it, try admitting that the third season was all about Dean, no matter who was on screen. Reviews, ratings and non-fan attention have NO direct bearing on the quality of a show. Some of the best shows on TV have been the most underrated and underappreciated.
Ali – “Out of about 30 posts, roughly 2/3 were Dean fans and 1/3 were Sam fans. 13% of the 2/3 that were Dean fans were heated, and whatever that other percentage was…. 55%?… of the 1/3 of Sam fans were getting heated.”
I don’t know if you missed my post, or are choosing to ignore it because it blows a hole in your theory, but I analyzed the first 111 comments in this thread (all there were at the time) and found a different story. The first 30 posts are a poor indicator of fan to fan bickering, since there’s hardly enough posted for anyone to argue with. I found 33 posts that were heated with other fans. Out of those 33 I found 19 of them were from people who sided with Dean, not by whether they agreed or disagreed with what Bobby said, but by what they themselves actually said in the post. That works out to 57.58% of vitriolic posts coming from Dean fans. And as I stated before, I included my posts in those 33. If you think I’m lying, I’ll send you the spreadsheet where I analyzed it and you can look for yourself.
Can’t wait until Thursday! Personally, I love this story arc even with all its faults but it sure brings out the crazy in Supernatural fans.
I’m actually a little bit annoyed at the amount of time the show spends on Sam and Dean drama this year though. I’d rather have seen them running around protecting seals, guns a-blazing or the occasional scene of Castiel and the angels trying to stop the seals from breaking. It’s a little ridiculous that the world is ending and all the action takes place off-screen while Sam/Dean are psychoanalyzed up and down.
S1-3 brotherly relationship – shorter, more poignant scenes that doesn’t make it seem like the Winchesters are the center of the universe
S4 brotherly relationship – long-winded melodrama that takes itself way too seriously
Cas girls are so much easier to please. We’re happy when he gets more than a 3-minute scene.
Between the Fringe, Lost and Supernatural finales this week, I’m totally dying of anticipation.
Jen, I was actually responding to Leah, who was confused about my conclusions. I think your post was stuck in moderation for a while, because I didn’t see it. Here.
“Out of those 33 I found 19 of them were from people who sided with Dean, not by whether they agreed or disagreed with what Bobby said, but by what they themselves actually said in the post. That works out to 57.58% of vitriolic posts coming from Dean fans.”
That’s a different method of analysis than I used (aside from just reading all of the posts). What you’re comparing is total vitriolic posts, divided into Dean fan and Sam fan. What was I doing was comparing the percentage of vitriolic Dean fans (ie, count up the number of Dean fan posts and look at the % that are vitriolic) compared to the same statistic for Sam fans.
In fact, because we used different angles to analyze, our results could be totally consistent… because if there are, say, 60 Deangirls and 30 Samgirls, and there are 12 vitriolic posts, 6 from each camp, that would mean that only 10% of Deangirls were vitriolic, compared to 20% of Samgirls.
Do you have the total post counts for Dean posts and Sam posts, so that we could work out those numbers? Because we should really do that, if you want to confirm that you actually did put a hole in my theory, rather than lending support to it. It could honestly go either way.
(I’d add that if you’re using self-identification for your categories, as opposed to agreement/disagreement with Bobby, then they lose a lot of meaning in terms of determining who’s more vitriolic… those who dislike what Bobby did here or those who didn’t. For example, if I were a Samgirl who liked what Bobby did, I could self-identify as a Deangirl and then bash all the Bobby-critics, which would allow you, Jen, to put me in the “vitriolic Deangirl” column. So, bear that in mind.)
I don’t have the numbers to hand, but I could get them. I don’t agree with that way of couching the statistics though, because it won’t accurately represent the state of things. When you’ve got opposing sides that are as lopsidedly represented as they are here, you can’t put your statistics that way, because if even one person from the smaller side chooses to be agressive, or vitriolic, it makes it automatically seem like more Sam fans are mean to other fans than Dean fans, when that’s not the case. It’s just that there are so few Sam fans represented in the thread, that it’s very easy to tip the numbers the wrong way. If you analyze only the posts that choose to be agressive, then at least you’re fairly distributing the blame. If the two sides were more evenly represented, then both ways would be fair.
How they felt about what Bobby did had nothing to do with it. And the majority of what I considered vitriolic posts weren’t criticizing other people for what they thought of what Bobby did. In fact, in at least a few of them, Bobby’s name wasn’t even mentioned. I went by what they stated, if they said they were a Dean girl, or a Sam girl, and if that didn’t make it clear, which it did in most cases, I went by two things. Who the tone of their post indicated they were supporting AND who they were directing their ire at. So if the tone of the post indicated they were a Sam fan, and the post was directed at a Dean fan, that’s two indications that they’re a Sam fan. If it wasn’t clear from that point of view which side they supported, I marked them down as supporting neither side. As I said before, I counted my own posts in those numbers, and I counted myself on the Sam side, obviously.
If you want to know about yourself personally; According to what I saw you had 8 comments. Of those 8 I classified 2 as vitriolic, and Dean supporting. I counted one as vitriolic and clearly supporting neither brother. 2 as slightly vitriolic and supporting Dean. One as slightly vitriolic and unclear as to who it supported. One as not vitriolic and supporting Dean, and one as not vitriolic and unclear as to support. In my quoted statistic I only counted posts that were clearly vitriolic. If I’d wanted to pad out the numbers, I could have, by changing one of your posts to a Dean supporting one, since that’s clearly where your affections lie, or changing one that I only viewed as slightly vitriolic to a yes in that column. But I was trying to be as honest as I could, so I didn’t do that.
Jen thanks for proving my point that samgirls are just as ranty and never satisfied as you accuse deangirls of being. Oh? Was that a generalization that you made? Funny how when you do it, it’s fair comment but when someone does it back to you it’s a sign of evil.
Also if you’re so interested in all the other characters on the show, why the need to clock Sam’s screentime? Might I suggest that if you actually paid attention to what Sam was doing on screen instead of watching the clock, you might have understood what was going on in his head better this season? Yes, yes, I know I’m evil and wicked and being mean to you. Whatever. If you can dish it out, you can take it, just like I can.
But number of minutes of screentime aside, I think where Sam’s at right now has been a well thought out and organic arc based on the traumas he has suffered over the years mixed in with particular character traits and feelings he’s had towards Dean (both positive and negative) since the beginning of the show. Nothing he has done has shocked me or left me scratching my head.
Also regarding the claims that deanfans were outraged by Mystery Spot because there was less Dean, I have no idea where you are getting that from. I thought that episode was very well liked, I certainly quite loved it.
It’s the only samcentric episode that didn’t kind of bore me until When the Levee Breaks. I also have to add that while I watched the show mainly for Dean during the first three seasons, Sam is finally becoming an intriguing character in his own right. I really hope Kripke doesn’t chicken out with the redemption stuff and sweeps it all away with a simple “it was all because of the demon blood.” That would be doing the character a great disservice in my opinion, but this is definitely something the writers have done in the past when it comes to conflict between the brothers, so I’m not holding my breath.
And I know this is another trait of the oh-so-evil-deangirl, but I love Castiel almost as much as I love Dean and I really hope the show continues to focus on that relationship next year as well. Though judging by what they have done to the Dean-Bobby relationship (which I used to love) I suspect, Cas too will be browbeating Dean in defense of Sam by the end of the season premier next season. Which is when I will be tune out for the last time.
Regarding ratings and quality of programming, well yes obviously some really crap stuff gets good ratings. I’m not sure what your point is unless it’s to suggest that the quality of this season being subpar is some kind of universal truth. Which obviously is a subjective opinion. I thought the first third of this season was the best this show has to offer, then it kind of lost it’s way in the middle, and I can’t really judge the last third of the season until after next week. But even if I love everything else in the finale, I’m still going to hate the part of the Bobby-Dean scene in this clip.
***It’s easy to like things when they go your way. ***
Yes it certainly is which would explain why you say you loved the first three seasons. But again, I’m not sure what the point is of that obvious statement.
***Couple that with the fact that they still haven’t given us a satisfactory answer as to WHY Sam was cut from that episode***
Kripke explains it in great detail on the DVD commentary. Basically he says that Dean needed to find out what happened to Sam on his own and the impact of those revelations was more powerful for the audience because Sam wasn’t there. Make of that, what you will.
***Personally, I’m not going to call you a bad fan for loving Dean to the exclusion of all other characters. That’s now how I choose to view the show, but you’re allowed to watch however you want, just as I am. I do, however, think that your fan to fan relating could use some refining. Calling fellow fans disingenous, half-brained, and claiming that their arguments have no merit simply because they do not agree with what you think, or what you see in the show is not a good way to communitcate with other people.***
Fine let me be more clear. I think you’re a bunch of hypocrites because you do exactly what you excoriate other people for doing and then act all shocked and innocent when someone calls you on it.
***So you’re saying that, if Bobby had chosen to chew Dean out about anything else in the exact same manner, you’d be okay with it? What if he’d chosen to express those same opinions in a vastly different way? Maybe a kind, quiet sit down to gently point out the way he saw it all? ***
Well I certainly would have been less angry without the “boo hoo,” the “whiny baby” and the you’re a princess because you don’t realize that families can’t always bake you apple pies, statement. Because you know, that’s a lesson Dean needs to learn what with how loving and supportive and appreciative Dean’s family has always been towards him. That boy sure needs to understand the meaning of sacrificing his own petty feelings for the good of the family doesn’t he? Oh that’s right, I forgot, he was being selfish and self-absorbed for being affected by the nightmares and the guilt over what happened to him in hell and missed Sam’s giant woobie pain that was manifesting itself in him having sex, going to movies and apparently moving on with his life, when Dean first got back. I take it all back, Dean deserves everything he gets, the wimpy PTSD-sufferer that he is.
***And you totally glossed over my point that maybe what Bobby wanted to accomplish was to make Dean angry, to give him the fire to fight. What better way to achieve that at the moment than to bring up Sam and the way he’s handling things?***
I didn’t gloss over this point, I just didn’t notice it. But since you asked again, I’ve never been of the Dean-needs-to-abused-to-function school of thought that is so popular with the deanhaters who use it to justify Sam and John’s behavior towards him. Then use it as an excuse to cheer on anyone who they believe is reinforcing their opinion and taking Dean down a couple of pegs just ‘cuz he’s more popular than their fave. That really is what all this comes back to as far as I can tell.
There were any number of ways that Bobby could have encouraged Dean without calling him names and setting up false arguments. Just because Kripke decided to pander to the samfans who have been whining all season that dean gets too much attention, doesn’t make it good or logical characterization for Bobby.
***The truth stings, does it?***LOL! No it really doesn’t. Though I’m really not sure what truth you are referring to. I’m guessing it’s that if an opinion is uttered by a samfan it is irrefutable fact and if something is uttered by a deanfan it is deluded ranting and only worthy or ridicule. But that’s the way it’s always been in this fandom so c’est la vie.
***Cas girls are so much easier to please. We’re happy when he gets more than a 3-minute scene.***
Danielle, I think I love you! Thank you for giving me some perspective.
***If you want to know about yourself personally; According to what I saw you had 8 comments. Of those 8 I classified 2 as vitriolic, and Dean supporting. I counted one as vitriolic and clearly supporting neither brother. 2 as slightly vitriolic and supporting Dean. One as slightly vitriolic and unclear as to who it supported. One as not vitriolic and supporting Dean, and one as not vitriolic and unclear as to support. In my quoted statistic I only counted posts that were clearly vitriolic. If I’d wanted to pad out the numbers, I could have, by changing one of your posts to a Dean supporting one, since that’s clearly where your affections lie, or changing one that I only viewed as slightly vitriolic to a yes in that column. But I was trying to be as honest as I could, so I didn’t do that.***
Wow you really do believe you are the final arbiter of all opinion in this fandom don’t you?
Yes, there goes my perspective again. *sigh*
Bobby is a flawed hero much in the sense John Winchester was, Dean is, or Sam is.
There is no reason to hate Bobby unless you hate all the characters.
Dean has said worse to Sam, Sam worse to Dean, John to Sam, Sam to John, John to Dean and so on.
It’s okay to disagree with what he’s saying but to outright say he needs to die is disingenious unless you judge all the characters that have been the protagonists on the show in the same manner and I honestly don’t see that from many of the comments.
There is a certain amount of perspective lacking in the fandom.
“When you’ve got opposing sides that are as lopsidedly represented as they are here, you can’t put your statistics that way, because if even one person from the smaller side chooses to be agressive, or vitriolic, it makes it automatically seem like more Sam fans are mean to other fans than Dean fans, when that’s not the case.”
Well… it is, though. It’s a greater proportion of that population that chooses to be aggressive and vitriolic. Wasn’t that the initial question… whether the Dean fans were more vitriolic and insane? That’s a judgment about trends in a population, and an absolute number tells you nothing about whether Dean fans are more likely to be vitriolic than Sam fans. It simply tells you that there are more Dean fans… which, again, most people already know.
You guys are hilarious. The Sam fans think the show favors Dean and it’s the “Dean and Cas show” and “everything’s about Dean”, and the Dean fans think Sam gets away with everything and he’ll even get Cas and “everything’s about Sam”. You all rant about how your favorite brother is being treated so badly.
I’m impartial when it comes to the brothers and I think they’re both wonderful and flawed, and that both have been given equal focus throughout the series.
Rach and danielle, I am SO with you on the Cas front!
Bobby FTW! Now go yell at Sam too! Both need a good kick up theirs.
Funny how that has riled everyone up because it has only gotten me much more excited for the finale.
“Jen thanks for proving my point that samgirls are just as ranty and never satisfied as you accuse deangirls of being. Oh? Was that a generalization that you made? Funny how when you do it, it’s fair comment but when someone does it back to you it’s a sign of evil.”
You know what. You’re right. I hate generalizations, and I try not to make them, but it’s not easy. I apologize. I don’t think I made any that implied that anyone else was dumb, or being less than sincere, which is what I objected to in your posts, but I may be wrong, and if I am, I apologize again.
I’m not sure why I need to defend my choices to you, but if you really want to know, I’m choosing to clock Sam’s screen time because it seems like he has been underrepresented this season, yet if you dare to say that to someone, they claim you’re lying. So I want numbers to give them. As far as the other characters screen time, if that’s what you meant, I’m choosing to only compare Sam’s screen time to Dean’s because they are the only two main characters. They’re the ones the story is about. If you feel like things have been explained adequately for your needs, more power to you. I feel the opposite, and I’m not alone in that opinion.
I don’t believe I ever said there was anything wrong with liking Castiel. I like him myself, when he’s not being a jerk. What I object to are the people who want to see him replace Sam. Yes, people actually have said that. No, I’m not making it up, but I know you’ll think I am. Castiel is now an important character in at least this portion of the story, and I don’t mind if he sticks around. I don’t particularly want any more episodes that revolve solely around him or his vessel, but him continuing to exist on the show doesn’t bother me in the least. As long as he’s not replacing anyone.
“Kripke explains it in great detail on the DVD commentary. Basically he says that Dean needed to find out what happened to Sam on his own and the impact of those revelations was more powerful for the audience because Sam wasn’t there. Make of that, what you will.
“Kripke explains it in great detail on the DVD commentary. Basically he says that Dean needed to find out what happened to Sam on his own and the impact of those revelations was more powerful for the audience because Sam wasn’t there. Make of that, what you will.
The DVD commentary you speak of, I’m assuming that’s the British/European half-season set? I guess it would have to be, since there’s no other DVD set out. That’s interesting, and that’s the first I’ve heard of Kripke commenting on it. I can’t speak for other Sam fans, or fans in general, but that only makes it worse. At least they finally gave us a straight answer. Too bad it’s one that doesn’t help the situation any.
“I think you’re a bunch of hypocrites because you do exactly what you excoriate other people for doing and then act all shocked and innocent when someone calls you on it. ”
You are entitled to think whatever you want. Like I said before, I don’t believe I ever called anyone scheming, or less than intelligent, but if I’m wrong about that, I’ll apologize again. If I gave the impression that I think that my opinion is automatically fact, or more important that someone else’s, I apologize for that too. That wasn’t my intention.
What one fan says is no more irrefutable truth than what another says. As far as the truth I was referring to, since you’ve been so quick to point out where I myself fall into the mold of Samfans, perhaps you’d be fair enough to do the same for yourself? I’ll leave that up to you.
Jen, I think you’re forgetting a few things when it comes to the screentime issue, namely that more screentime doesn’t necessarily imply a larger part of the storyline, it depends an awful lot on what is done with that time. I think you’re right that Sam has had less screentime than Dean this season, but much of what we see with him is packed with character development and plot to the point where it’s almost an overload – and a lot of fun to watch.
Second, you’ve got to look at what’s best for the plot as a whole. Sam’s storyline has been kept very deliberately murky for the entire season to pack a wallop of a punch here at the end. And, as Chuck stated, the blood drinking is definitely unsympathetic. The more we’ve learned about what Sam’s been doing, the darker and less pure his story has become (which I’m enjoying, personally, as I love a tragic hero). Based on what we’ve learned already, I see nothing to suggest to me that Sam doesn’t have other, even worse, secrets he’s still keeping. As a Sam fan, I can see why you would be annoyed by a perceived lesser standing for him, but as a fan of the show, I hope you can appreciate how much more epic and dramatic the storytelling is by revealing it in this way, rather than by playing it straight.
The DVD commentary for ItB was leaked last week. I’m not giving any links, but if you want to see it, it was up on Youtube last I knew. Kripke does indeed state that he needed Dean to learn the truth (or as much of it as Castiel knew) on his own.
What I want to know is where was Bobby this whole year while Sam was treating Dean like dirt and insulting him, putting him down and just generally treating him like a half-brained idiot?
Wanna bet Sam’s never going to be getting any highly insulting speeches about his behavior from Bobby or anyone else they might hold any weight from. The only person who might say anything is Dean and naturally he’ll be painted as in the wrong and “mean to Sam” for doing so.
Sympathetic, “good” third parties never belittle Sam’s feelings or his pain or his brain or anything about him.
“Also regarding the claims that deanfans were outraged by Mystery Spot because there was less Dean, I have no idea where you are getting that from. I thought that episode was very well liked, I certainly quite loved it.”
I liked Mystery Spot just fine and so did nearly all my Dean loving friends.
I never understand the complaint that we don’t know what Sam did, we don’t know how he feels, how he felt, etc. And we know in detail what Dean did? No we don’t, not really. He gave a very brief summation in the 4 to 6 minutes he brought it up this whole season but guess what? We really didn’t find out more about what Dean did in Hell and we didn’t find out more about Dean felt about the aftermath, with his memories. No more than we did with Sam.
I’m going to go up to just episode 4.14, which was where the show took it’s second hiatus.
In no way do I claim it to be a total summation but it’s mainly just to show that yes, I do believe we have gotten to see and hear what is going on with Sam.
In Lazarus Rising – with the final scene between Sam and Ruby we found out he and Ruby had been hanging out for quite some time(taking it back to the motel room scene, we discovered at the very least she was quite comfortable hanging around half naked in his motel room). Earlier on we also got some of Sam’s feelings in the motel room, talking to Dean after
In Metamorphosis, just two episodes later – we saw Dean find out what Sam was doing, which in turn gave Sam the opportunity to argue his side, which he did in two, count ‘em, TWO, rather lengthy speeches(in the motel room and outside the car), telling us how he felt and so on. And then a third later on where he vows he’s going to give it up, for HIMSELF, ’cause he’s just tough like that.
Now let’s see in those first 4 episodes what did we find out about Dean’s time in Hell….erm…nothing. There was a brief 1 second long flashback of sound and light in Lazarus Rising. When it comes to why he pulled out of Hell, not much different, Castiel gave little real info, just very cryptic statements and some threats.
In Are You There God….Dean talked about how he felt being pulled out by an angel, he didn’t understand it, couldn’t see why it would happen to him and didn’t believe it was necessarily anything particularly good(hmmm….Dean was right). Sam thought it was a good thing and said Dean had to admit it was real now(as Sam had believed and Dean hadn’t).
In In The Beginning – that was very little about Dean personally – that was about him learning about his family and about Sam. It was also about him learning stuff Sam had been keeping from him for almost a year prior to his going to Hell. But in his interactions with his family members we do get to see his feelings about them.
In point of fact it shows Dean to be a forgiving person who is more concerned about the well-being of his family then with whether or not they live up to some image he has of them. Because he clearly still loved his mother dearly after this episode despite what he found out. And even Sam, he finds out Sam’s been lying and sneaking around but he still tells him what happened. Which thus kind of puts to lie everything Bobby is saying in this clip, even if we didn’t have 4 seasons worth of other episodes to do so.
In Metamorphosis, along with the internal, emotional Sam stuff from Sam’s side already discussed, despite finding out Sam had been lying to him from the minute he got back and hanging out with a demon – Dean told him about that experience, told him their mom had been from a hunting family, told him about her deal(which in turn would be why Sam “slipped” up and accidently revealed he already knew the part Dean hadn’t gotten to yet – the demon blood dripping, thus he is caught in another lie).
In episode 5 – Mainly a standlone but Dean mentioned he felt like he’d gotten a second chance to do some good. We also found out Sam had gone to see Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull while Dean was in Hell.
In episode 6 – they used Dean’s fears for laughs and they were mainly just funny setpieces as opposed to anything very deep, but at the end we discover, through his interaction with Hallucination!Lilith, that he has been repressing memories of Hell, which would explain why he was infected by the ghost sickness.
In episode 7, we find out more of Sam’s feelings about his powers, we see him react to the angels and how they treat him, we see how this affects him. Right in the moment, as it’s happening. We see how Sam feels about it and what it does to his faith.
In episode 8, we learn more about his state of his mind due to his reaction the wishing well and what his wish would be(Lilith’s head on a plate). At the end of the episode, Dean admits(on his own, he wasn’t caught, he just felt bad about lying to Sam earlier when he asked what he remembered) he wasn’t telling him the truth at the beginning of the episode when he said he didn’t remember Hell, but that he just can’t talk about it.
In episode 9, we get actual FLASHBACKS to what Sam did on his summer vacation. Quite a few minutes worth of flashbacks, as he’s explaining his feelings and choices during that time to Dean and why he’s doing what he’s doing now – who by the way listens quite non-judgementally and who for the rest of the two episodes is fairly civil to Ruby thus showing he’s trying to meet Sam halfway. So yeah, lots of stuff about Sam in that episode.
In episode 10 – Dean shows discomfort when Hell is mentioned to him by Anna and at the end of the episode, they take about 2 minutes to have Dean emotionally reveal to Sam the basics about his time in Hell – how long he was there(40 years), that he was tortured and that he broke(after 30 years of continuous torture) and ended up torturing other souls.
In episode 11 – We find out Dean’s been running them ragged working cases in an attempt to keep his mind off his memories and that Dean feels a connection to both sides of the case, the victims and the perpetrators, and that he sees himself as worse than an animal for what he did in Hell after 30 years of torture. He is angry at himself, there are no tears. It is the first time he has talked about it in over a month within the show’s timeline, since he first mentioned it at the end of 4.10. Makes a grand total of twice.
In episode 12 – Ruby shows up, tells Sam “oceans of people will die”, this still does not convince Sam to do what she wants him to do(which she also mentioned crypically in episode 10). We see that Sam is very much affected by the events of this episode, much as Dean was in episode 11. Sam vaguely makes a comment to Dean about “cutting off the head of the snake” Dean replies yeah but this snake will just grow a thousand more, that it’s a long haul. This life either ends bloody or ends sad. Sam doesn’t like this answer, so Sam goes to Ruby at the end, rather than sharing a quiet drink with Dean to talk it out, says he doesn’t want to be doing this when he’s 60(as the old magicians where the one had finally ended up old and alone despite doing the “right” thing, no reward).
Episode 13 – mainly about Sam’s memories of one high school they went to, and they tied it into what he is experiencing now. A big question being “Is Sam happy?” Which ties back into the previous episode.
Episode 14 – Dean discovers Sam has been lying and sneaking around. A siren uses this to get Dean alone(though funnily enough it’s Sam who pushes Dean off on the FBI guy so he can do the “important stuff” and screw the female doctor) and tricks him into “swapping spit” by sharing a drink with him thus infecting him.
Sam then is also infected after the siren gets Dean to hold him still and they are both told by the siren to get their feelings off their chest(he does not tell them what to say) before fighting to the death over who gets to be with him – Dean reveals he knows Sam’s lying to him again, he wants to feel like they are partners again who have each other’s backs, his tone is sad and regretful. Sam reveals he’s sneaking around on Dean because he believes Dean is weak and afraid, his tone is demeaning and superior. Dean wins the fight but Bobby shows up before it comes to the Siren’s ordered conclusion – death for the loser.
We’ve gotten plenty on Sam’s feelings, it’s not all pretty but it’s been there and it’s been there throughout the season.
These comments are a real eye opener and go a long way towards explaining why Sam is hated by so many. Its because he is sometimes MEAN to DEAN. Its the biggest sin a character can commit on supernatural and a surefire way too turn the 25 or so rabid Dean girls against you. Look out Bobby. You gone done it now.
Seriously – you are so right. A few nutcases have been taken in by Jensen’s pretty face and forgotten that Dean is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER and treat him like their own personal woobie have ruined it for the rest of us.
The sad part is, Kripke’s a bit of a moron and tends to write for this small, but vocal, group, and the rest of us have to watch the crap that comes out. I hope he ignores the vitriol that will come Bobby’s way. In fact, I hope he ignores them all and just writes his damn story and stops catering to these whiny fans.
***Jen: What one fan says is no more irrefutable truth than what another says. As far as the truth I was referring to, since you’ve been so quick to point out where I myself fall into the mold of Samfans, perhaps you’d be fair enough to do the same for yourself? I’ll leave that up to you.***
Yup I’m a proud EDG. Never denied it, not going to apologize for it and I’m not going to pretend that I love both boys equally just to pacify the samfans who are just vitriolic but just fewer in number.
***Seriously – you are so right. A few nutcases have been taken in by Jensen’s pretty face and forgotten that Dean is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER and treat him like their own personal woobie have ruined it for the rest of us.***
You are so right Rachel. Samfans are clearly much more discerning since they favor the much less interesting and attractive character. They are gentle sweet souls just like their Sammy who never, ever does anything wrong, is completely without flaws, is purely a victim in every way possible and holds no responsibility for any conflict. I can see why y’all love him so.
Yeah, fans of a character don’t like characters who are assholes to him. *shock!* *gasp!* Guess what… the Sam fans I know didn’t think much of Bobby either until this clip. They thought he didn’t love Sam as much as he loved Dean, so he was just a jerk. Bobby wasn’t even MEAN TO SAM, he just didn’t act like Sam was the center of the universe. What a bastard!
But yeah, you never make more friends for a man than when you abuse him unjustly, so the saying goes. (And before you all go crying about those terms, it’s a quotation, and “abuse” in the older sense of the term, ie, “be a jerk to”.) And since Dean bears the brunt of an awful lot of in-show criticism (he’s stupid, he’s needy, he’s weak, he’s pathetic, he’s mindless), he gets an equal portion of fan support. That’s just how these things go.
Sam vs. Dean
Wow, when did this become a discussion about who the better brother is?? First off, both characters are phenomenal and without one the show would not be good. Secondly, they both have had their own “demons” to face, so to speak, and neither are “angels”. Dean, yes he has started the apocalypse. Bad Dean, BAD! Sammy, yes, he’s sexing demons while drinking their blood. Kinky and bad! But both characters have suffered the beatings of others not to mention the beatings from themselves. Sam fans I ask you to remember, Dean, is a constant tortured soul who will never find happiness because he wouldn’t know what it looked like if it was naked and spread eagle on top of the Impala. He loves his brother more than life itself (obviously) and would do anything for the people close to him in his life despite the fact that he takes no shortage of “god, you really do suck” and “do what you’re told, bitch” comments from the Angels. Not to mention his own brother thinks he is weak and incapable of handling what’s in front of him (I ask you…how much would that suck?) Oooh and how short our memory is Dean fans…do we not remember back to the last season when Sammy was hunted down by his fellow Hunters for reasons that were beyond his control. It’s not his fault that YED (or Azazel for those paying close attention) put demon blood in him. Or let’s talk about when Dean said, “Sammy, if I didn’t know you, I’d hunt you!”?!?! That’s pretty screwed up. I don’t think Kripke’s playing any favorites, I think the boys are each following the only course left to them. After all, this is a show about Ghosts, DEMONS, vampires, etc… They are suppose to be treated badly, this is not a happy show!! Funny at times, absolutely, but not happy. It’s dramatic and painful. The first episode we see Sam’s girlfriend and mother burning in flames on the ceiling. That should have clued everyone in that this is not a happy show. It would be like 24 fans complaining because Jack Bauer kills copious amounts of people in every episode. It’s not meant to be happy!
And as a side note to everyone quit being petty, both actors are getting equal and quality amounts of screen time. I’m sure if you asked Jensen or Jared they would request less considering that most of the show is filmed with them in every seen. (Not that I would like to see less of them mind you, but the shooting hours are ridiculous). Both boys are flawed and the final scores aren’t in yet on who the more “evil” brother is. Sam is close to going round the bend, and he strangled Dean, I know. But that doesn’t mean he can’t/won’t come back. And the drama of this, is what makes the show so compelling.
To Be a Hero or Not to be a Hero…
What is a hero exactly? Many would probably say a honorable, self-sacrificing individual. I say, hero’s are boring! They are one dimensional characters who, I personally, wouldn’t want to watch 4 seasons of. Sam and Dean are the anti-hero’s and anti-hero’s are not perfect and they don’t finish things up with a nice pretty bow. They’re angry, they’re damaged and can sometimes make a mess of things but despite it all, they get the job done for the greater good. Both Dean AND Sam fit that description. Now, it’s in their own unique way, but this is what Kripke has always intended for these characters. They are fulfilling his vision of the Obi-Wan and Anakin of the small screen. So enjoy it and quit getting all pissy because the boys aren’t sharing that “brotherly love” anymore.
Bobby – the get your s_*t together or else Father Figure
Bobby is a fantastic character who always helps bring the boys back to center and comes through in a pinch. Those of you turning on Bobby because he yelled at Dean (cry me a frickin river), I am going to assume you are 12 years old and have yet to realize that every adult needs a good kick in the pants every now then. He loves both brothers and wants to see them back together just as much as the fans of the show do. Bobby is awesome and I sincerely hope he doesn’t die – nuff said.
Ruby – the Jar-Jar Binks of the show
Okay, I know I’m going to get yelled at for this one but Ruby really isn’t that bad of a character. She’s important to the story and I understand why Kripke has kept her around. She is instrumental in facilitating the rift between Sam and Dean (which I know is why many of you do not like her) but again, it’s what has helped make the show reach unimaginable depth for series called “Supernatural”. That being said, I wasn’t pleased when they decided to switch actors who portrayed Ruby but it does make sense. Kripke needed Sam to fully accept Ruby as a person in his life and for Sam to do that Ruby needed to subdue his conscience of “don’t steal that live girl’s body!”. What I like about the Ruby character is, I don’t think we’ve gotten the full picture of Ruby’s end game. I think it will be interesting to see where her character goes in Season 5. So I say, Rock On Kripke!
Let Me Sum Up…
I’m neither a Dean or Sam girl. I did start watching the show in Season 1 because as I was flipping through the channels I recognized Jensen Ackles as the guy who played Alec on the show Dark Angel. But so the Sam/Jared Padlecki fans don’t yell at me for being a “Dean Girl”, I started watching old episodes of the Gilmore Girls just because Jared was in it. My point, I love both characters equally and honestly believe that Kripke is taking the show in a fantastic direction. It’s painful to watch Sam turn on Dean as it was painful to watch Dean breakdown that “I’ma badass” exterior and see how vulnerable, maybe even weak, when he was when he came back from hell. I am excited and eagerly waiting to see how Kripke and the rest of the writing staff round out this epic battle of good vs. evil. My advice to other fans is to calm down, pump up the ac/dc and enjoy the ride because I’m sure Kripke’s got a lot more in store for these boys and we’ve only begun to see the “genesis” of this apocalypse…
hope theres another season.it ended with lucifer rising. i cant believe it ended like that. but it was brillant how killing lilith was the last seal and she led sam right into it. basically the angels and demonds have a little game, bring hell on on then its paradise if the angels win. i never knew that Dean was never suppose to kill lilith, but lucifer .
I’m not going to critize them. They’re only human.
And Sam was angry- I mean what Dean said- it was painful.
But that doesn’t justify what Sam was doing.
But there brothers.
Family doesn’t just go away.
Sam hasn’t gone evil.
They have to work this out.
Definitely looking forward to season five.
Lucifer rising?
Sam being possibly the meat suit for Lucifer.
And Dean probably on the I have to kill Sam path b/c he’s Lucifer.
Well that’s what I deducted from angels
Hey “nanceinthepants” I really agree with you, what you wrote fully describe what is the show…Congratulations !!!
I’m very anxious for the new season !!!
Jesus f***ing Christ! All of you, who are bickering back and forth – BACK IT UP…Back the hell up! Not just on this site, but wherever you are in virtual space. You know what the problem is? You’ve made this show, your life. Too much free time. Balance yourself, dammit!
Kripke is a creative genius, the show is awesome – I love Sam and Dean. Enjoy it, enjoy them, have a little fun, be loyal, get your groove on, get a little drowned in it – then get the hell out of the damn pool, AND DO SOMETHING ELSE! Let Kripke, Jared, Jensen, etc. tell the story. Don’t get SO steeped in your own presumptuous perceptions, of the show. While some good points are made – many are just plain off, on errant tangents. Therefore, half the time -you argue over things that aren’t even there, in the first place. Listen, see, learn, and consider…talk a little less.
The self-reference episode was so on point. For people who call themselves fans – ya’ll sure do complain alot. Over-identifying, much? I don’t know. But whatever it is – stop it! What WOULD be acceptable comments, opinions, ideas, complaints, passion, etc. – is just taken SO damn far. TOO far. To the point where it defeats its own purpose…its ridiculous. Stand back, and just let the show be. Its a damn good show. The best, I think television has ever seen. These guys BUST THEIR ASSES, giving us this show. I personally appreciate everything about the show…including its very real portrayal of real personalities, real relationships, real struggles – personal and interpersonal, and the real gray areas and imperfections one experiences in real life. All that the show raises – is to make us stir, ponder, appreciate, relate…enjoy. Not bitch and whine and argue and fight – like idiots in front of some daytime television judge, or talkshow host! And definitely not to go overboard, like mental patients, off their medication.
You are still part of the fandom – and I love you guys, I do. But damn. This shit is EVERYWHERE. It breaks my heart and pisses me off, at the same time. Don’t you get tired of it – or ever stop to say, “What the hell…?” Some of you are teasing insanity! Don’t live through the show, like a soap opera coach potato, without a life. You’re so close to it, your blind. Back up…so you can see clearly, and more fully appreciate – the deliberate dynamics of a matchless television series. And – End. …Love you.